About free vs paid for.
The software industry has been foisting half baked junk on the public for a generation. Windows has been a long chain of bug infested rehashed versionz, dominating the market by brute force bizness practisez. They set the tone for the entire industry. Meanwhile, alot uv freewear and open source stuff iz az good or better than the paid for stuff, so the concept uv 'you get wut you pay for' iz missing or weak in youngsterz and degraded in us old farts. I recently switched to Linux Mint on my netbook & its great.
JO
-----Original Message-----
From: Vernon Adams <vern-nztp2eEOrCR84o+***@public.gmane.org>
To: Open Font Library <openfontlibrary-***@public.gmane.org>
Sent: Thu, Oct 17, 2013 3:56 am
Subject: Re: [OpenFontLibrary] [GFD] Tom Phinney on Libre Fonts
Pablo clearly 'gets it' :)
I assume that the response from people who "dont get it" would be that you
should have both; 'freedom' and 'quality', and i wouldn't argue with that, it's
a good target. But...
âŠdesigning a font family to the high standards that Thomas has set, takes a lot
of time and labour, and real investment in time and labour. There's a reason
that major font corporations have rarely produced Free fonts (apart form the
fact that they have only just noticed the bandwagon!); they are not able to
invest to that extent into a lot of quality fonts that can be given away /
altered / redesigned etc, when their business is still more or less still
embedded in the 'pay-for-it' model. We have seen some flexing of that, e.g. with
Adobe's Source Sans, but it's untypical.
Libre designers can sidestep that resource problem by actively compromising on
the usual quality control criteria; lower the 'finish' bar, but get the font out
there early, being used and generating feedback, stats, etc. Or, raise the
'finish' bar, but then have to delay release and usage, potentially then wasting
resources on a design that you have no usage trends and stats coming back on
(i.e. you could spend a year on a dud, a font that no-one uses).
I can talk about my own fonts best; releasing early, getting back the stats,
focussing on the most popular to fix and refine, getting back the stats on the
refined fonts, focussing on the most popular to add weights & more refinements,
and so on and so on. "Room for improvement" is built in, it's an integral
function of the design and release process, as you focus your improvements on
the designs that are clearly the most popular.
Another factor worth considering; i see big big evidence that a lot of people
actively seek out the use of true Free software, especially in connection with
web related content. There's possibly a sizeable chunk of people who are savvy
about, or have now just grown up with, the 'Free versus Paid-For' dynamic. There
is pragmatism too, e.g. use paid if you have no choice, but it's also against a
backdrop of a huge adoption wave of people 'not paying'; that ends up as much in
streaming music before buying it, as it does in using Libre fonts before using
proprietary fonts. The punch for sellers is that people are much more likely to
stream free music at a lesser resolution quality, than they are to buy it at a
'full' quality resolution. So with music; the qualities of variety, choice,
browserbility, and not paying, is trumping the qualities of hi-fidelity and
'ownership'. Same goes for fonts perhaps. It could be that some of the aspects
of 'quality' that Thomas bemoans is lacking in Libre fonts, could be mostly
'surplus' quality, that users have savvilly decided they can do without.
I'm not making this stuff up btw :) It's all there if you pick up and read the
writings of people like Benkler, Shirky, Bruns, Paul Mason, etc etc, a.k.a they
know what they are talking about!
PS - It's interesting that Pablo picked up on metal faces. I think it's
interesting to look back at old specimens books and notice the 'quality' that
was strung across the type industry. The quality faces, we are familar with, as
we still use them in digital forms. But alongside them were a plethora of
jobbing faces, often of varying degrees of lower quality. Probably knocked
together quickly to hook into fads and trends. Or knocked together with
constrained resources to compete with the more popular faces of the big
foundries. You can especially see this if you look at 'Advertisers' Gothics or
Slab Serifs, there were a lot of 'lesser' designs in widespread everyday use. In
fact both my fonts Oswald and Rokkitt are built upon a handfull of these lesser
known old faces. I think i can say that at least i improved on the originals,
even if i haven't yet come up to Thomas's standards, boo-hoo ;)
-v
Post by Pablo ImpallariThe most important aspect of Libre fonts its not aesthetic, or quality, or
whatever.... it's the LICENSE itself.
Post by Pablo ImpallariIs the fact that anybody can use them without asking permission, having to
pay, or worrying about lawsuits.
Post by Pablo ImpallariIn a recent conversation about Libre fonts being used by Adobe Edge and the
RFN, Dave told us something like: "the big companies will not serve the RFN
fonts if they have to ask for permission or sign agreements because of the
administrative burden of managing that licenses."
Post by Pablo Impallari- People using Libre fonts are completely liberated for the administrative burden.
- They are also completely liberated from fear! As they don't have to fear
that they may get sued if the use the font for something not specified in the
license legalese.
Post by Pablo ImpallariThey are more "convenient" in a "practical" way.
Working with Libre fonts is EASIER. Users have less administrative job to do,
and less things to worry about.
Post by Pablo ImpallariThey also avoid all the process of buying a font: Creating and account, taking
out the credit card, paying, keeping track of the license, etc, etc... Libre
Fonts are just there.. always available and ready to be used, legally and worry
free.
Post by Pablo ImpallariIn companies and agencies where there any many departments involved
(accounting, legal, etc) the process is even more complex, and the removal of
all those obstacles is even more appealing.
Post by Pablo ImpallariWhen Wikipedia started, people also complained about quality.
A few years later, quality improved and was not an issue any more.
When Metal Typefaces replaced the scribes, people complained. Quality was not
good compared scribes.
Post by Pablo ImpallariHowever, Metal Typefaces replaced the scribes because they where more
"convenient" in a "practical" way.
Post by Pablo ImpallariIt was the same process when the first digital generation of commercial fonts
where made. Quality was not good compared to Metal Typefaces, people complained
(some still complain). However digital fonts replaced metal and phototype fonts
because they where more "convenient" in a "practical" way.
Post by Pablo ImpallariMankind always tries to make things easier, to remove obstacles, and to get
the job done faster.
Post by Pablo ImpallariLibre fonts are more "convenient" in a "practical" way.
People have other things to do in their daily lives.
So many things to do... so little time.
And Libre Fonts get the job done, faster, easier.
They are not a "technological" advance, like from scribes to metal, or form metal to digital.
But the effect of the Libre License is comparable.
They have removed obstacles, making life easier for the people who use them.
I dont know much about the world uv type design, but I get wut youre saying,
Vernon. All professionz tend to get fossilized over time. People run out uv
ideaz, even az they bekum masterz uv their art. They also tend to create
obstaclez to entry.
Post by Pablo ImpallariWith teknolojyz that are in the early stajez uv development its probably even
harder for individualz who did the hard work at the beginning to let young
wippersnapperz bild on their work. I suspect thats why Fontlab iznt very good -
helps keep 'amatuerz' out.
Post by Pablo ImpallariJO
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Wed, Oct 16, 2013 6:53 pm
Subject: Re: [OpenFontLibrary] [GFD] Tom Phinney on Libre Fonts
I've sat on this a few days, just to clarify my thoughts a little.
Browsing the WebInk catalogue, i don't see any evidence of what Thomas's great
alternative for web fonts could be, and i'm still not sure what he is
effectively saying, beyond simply penning a biased criticism of a particular
webfont project. I don't doubt that the products served from WebINk are 'point
perfect' (hmm i wonder), but apart from that, many of the products seem to exist
in a vacuum. The standard faces can mostly be also accessed from other providers
(and i bet that's where users do go! e.g Typekit is waaaay better), and much of
what is 'original' or exclusive to WebINk seem to be in a stye no-mans land.
I
Post by Pablo Impallarijust don't see any outstanding quality there overall, and i dont see much there
that i imagine designers get excited about. To me it looks like a product that
desperately needs a shot of fresh blood, or indeed something even stronger, to
bring something energising and want-able to the brand. Basic better direction
would be a good start. Assuming that the 'technical quality' is a given with
WebInk, then Extensis do have at least one good quality to build on. What they
need to snap into that regime of technical quality is at the very least some
desireable, infectious font faces. That's where the hard work starts though;
creative output can allways be refined and improved technically (engineers can
do clean up work), but it's wrong-way-round to create the other way. Doing it
the other way round is less efficient - the end result is likely well crafted
fonts, but nowhere near enough fonts, and maybe no killer fonts.
In many ways the Google font project was an audacious one; rule breaking, taking
chances, and a lot of doing things that 'experts' said you should not, or, could
not do. That adds up to strategy where 'room for improvement' is built in, it's
a system of rolling enhancement, improvement, further innovation, in which the
user is an integral part. Playing a bit of 'what if�' though, i wonder how a
project with the same aims and scope would have faired under the management of
say WebInk. I just dont think it would have happened, or, we would still be
waiting for it to happen. My hunch is that it would not have had the same wide
variety of designers involved, nor aimed at the same wide stylistic and user
coverage. It would probably not have focussed on usage stats, adoption waves,
and plugging directly into the hub of the other nascent free software
communities and products, but instead relied upon the 'expertise' of a few the
same old selected individuals. It would have also been slower, or resistant, to
try non-expert approaches. I dont think it would have been much of a model.
One thing i can agree on; i would also love to see more creative people making
'better quality' fonts, me included :). My argument with Thomas on this subject
is that biasing too much toward 'point perfection' and near disregarding the
actual creative input, is a bad approach; it creates a lesser education, and
ultimately creates lesser designers. But then i was indoctrinated by the totally
awesome British Art School sytem of the 70s & 80s :) I think it's better to
start with the creative impulse, get looking, get making and making, filter out,
and then head towards refinement and improvement.
-vernon
On 14 Oct 2013, at 16:20, Thomas Phinney <
I do criticize Google web fonts, but only saying the exact same things I have
been saying directly to the two Daves for several years now, in the spirit of
constructive criticism, because I care about quality. If I was just out to make
a buck I would not have given that feedback privately and passionately long
before criticizing publicly.
BTW, quality is not about elites vs the masses. Everybody benefits from
well-crafted fonts, including casual users.
I happen to agree with you that there are a lot of well-crafted fonts that are
stultifyingly boring. But unlike technical quality, aesthetics are a matter of
opinion, and I wasn't trying to go there.
I also happen to think that a lot of creative and aesthetically interesting
are done by people who don't know how to make decent quality fonts (or perhaps
know but don't care, in some cases). I would love to see those people learn how
to make better quality fonts.
That's why I joined Crafting Type: I am eager to help teach the basics of type
design to more people, and to make sure that spacing, point placement and
various optical compensations are well covered in that discussion.
One thing I could have said more clearly in my blog post is that one can get
passable but not fabulous quality without a lot more work than the amount
required to make crap. Proper point placement and half-decent spacing and so
forth are not *that* hard, nor horribly slow once one has the right work habits.
--
Un Abrazo
Pablo Impallari