Setting up self hosting

[Vernon Adams]

Hi Quinn!

I keep wanting to find this out too. IMO it’s the missing key to a typographic revolution :)

You might want to look at https://github.com/garrickvanburen/Fontue

It is a few years old now.

Have you searched on github for ‘font server’ and ‘webfont server’ ??

Brings up a few potentially interesting projects.

I would be very interested to hook up on anything you find and help however i can to get something up and running.

Hello Dave,
- ℚ
tel. [phone]
web. quinnkeaveney.com
b[log]. l3tt3r.com
twitter. quinn_chirps

[Garrick van Buren]

Quinn - what do you mean by "so I don't have to use @font-face"?


Vernon - thanks for calling out the Fontue project. I stopped developing it for 2 reasons:

- browser support stabilized to the point where TFF & EOT provide sufficient coverage

- my opinion that @font-face works best when the font files are local to the project - rather than on a hosted service. In my experience w/ running Kernest - there are very few scenarios where a hosted web font service is superior to self-hosted.

Here's the @font-face declaration I normally use:
@font-face {
font-family: 'Allan';
font-style: normal;
font-weight: normal;
src: url('fonts/allan/Allan.eot?#') format('eot'), url('fonts/allan/Allan.ttf') format('truetype');
}



Is this helpful?

-----------------------
Garrick van Buren
http://garrickvanburen.com
612 325 9110
-----------------------

Post by Vernon Adams
Hi Quinn!
I keep wanting to find this out too. IMO it’s the missing key to a typographic revolution :)
You might want to look at https://github.com/garrickvanburen/Fontue
It is a few years old now.
Have you searched on github for ‘font server’ and ‘webfont server’ ??
Brings up a few potentially interesting projects.
I would be very interested to hook up on anything you find and help however i can to get something up and running.

Hello Dave,
- ℚ
tel. [phone]
web. quinnkeaveney.com
b[log]. l3tt3r.com
twitter. quinn_chirps

[n***@public.gmane.org]

I coudnt get the webfont thing to work, so just went with gif and jpg piks uv the text. Kind uv a hassle, but it ensurez that everybody will see it correctly. If youre worried that the pik text iz not searchable, just put the text in a mouse over note or alt text for the imaj.



-----Original Message-----
From: Garrick van Buren <garrick-***@public.gmane.org>
To: Open Font Library <openfontlibrary-***@public.gmane.org>
Sent: Tue, Oct 29, 2013 7:50 pm
Subject: Re: [OpenFontLibrary] Setting up self hosting


Quinn - what do you mean by "so I don't have to use @font-face"?


Vernon - thanks for calling out the Fontue project. I stopped developing it for
2 reasons:

- browser support stabilized to the point where TFF & EOT provide sufficient
coverage

- my opinion that @font-face works best when the font files are local to the
project - rather than on a hosted service. In my experience w/ running Kernest -
there are very few scenarios where a hosted web font service is superior to
self-hosted.

Here's the @font-face declaration I normally use:
@font-face {
font-family: 'Allan';
font-style: normal;
font-weight: normal;
src: url('fonts/allan/Allan.eot?#') format('eot'), url('fonts/allan/Allan.ttf')
format('truetype');
}



Is this helpful?

-----------------------
Garrick van Buren
http://garrickvanburen.com
612 325 9110
-----------------------

Post by Vernon Adams
Hi Quinn!
I keep wanting to find this out too. IMO it’s the missing key to a typographic

revolution :)

Post by Vernon Adams
You might want to look at https://github.com/garrickvanburen/Fontue
It is a few years old now.
Have you searched on github for ‘font server’ and ‘webfont server’ ??
Brings up a few potentially interesting projects.
I would be very interested to hook up on anything you find and help however i

can to get something up and running.

Post by Vernon Adams

Hello Dave,
I was wondering if you could help/point me towards how to set up a self

hosting service so that I don't have to use @font-face. Has google fonts looked
into this? Do you know how to do this? I can't seem to find any tutorials.

Post by Vernon Adams

- ℚ
tel. [phone]
web. quinnkeaveney.com
b[log]. l3tt3r.com
twitter. quinn_chirps

[Dave Crossland]

Post by n***@public.gmane.org
I coudnt get the webfont thing to work, so just went with gif and jpg piks
uv the text. Kind uv a hassle, but it ensurez that everybody will see it
correctly. If youre worried that the pik text iz not searchable, just put
the text in a mouse over note or alt text for the imaj.

lolz

What wuz de problem?

[n***@public.gmane.org]

Probably my lack uv experteze.


Turnz out pretty good doing it this way. Just put http://www.nooalf.com/ANJL.html up and you can see its not just plain text. I typed it, then copied the layer and removed the color to make it stand out much better than plain text duz.



-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Crossland <dave-***@public.gmane.org>
To: Open Font Library <openfontlibrary-***@public.gmane.org>
Sent: Fri, Nov 1, 2013 12:32 pm
Subject: Re: [OpenFontLibrary] Setting up self hosting

Post by n***@public.gmane.org
I coudnt get the webfont thing to work, so just went with gif and jpg piks
uv the text. Kind uv a hassle, but it ensurez that everybody will see it
correctly. If youre worried that the pik text iz not searchable, just put
the text in a mouse over note or alt text for the imaj.

lolz

What wuz de problem?

[Dave Crossland]

Post by n***@public.gmane.org
Turnz out pretty good doing it this way

Sick

[Raphaël Bastide]

Ok nooalf-***@public.gmane.org I just discovered your website and it’s amazing.
What are the licences of your fonts <http://www.nooalf.com/2NQ4YQ/> ?
--
Raphaël Bastide
raphaelbastide.com

Post by n***@public.gmane.org
Turnz out pretty good doing it this way

Sick

[vernon adams]

i like “oRMR_MK3” a LOT :)

What are the licences of your fonts ?
--
Raphaël Bastide
raphaelbastide.com

Post by n***@public.gmane.org
Turnz out pretty good doing it this way

Sick

[vernon adams]

+1 on JRUG_PUNK too

i like “oRMR_MK3” a LOT :)

What are the licences of your fonts ?
--
Raphaël Bastide
raphaelbastide.com

Post by n***@public.gmane.org
Turnz out pretty good doing it this way

Sick

[Dave Crossland]

Please keep it polite, vern.

[Vernon Adams]

My specimen references some famous Gilbert & George art pieces.
It’s good to see people making fonts like this. Type should be made from these sort of marks too. I see them as liberational, and equally as beautiful as the marks on the Trajan column.
Seriously.

-v

Post by Dave Crossland
Please keep it polite, vern.

[n***@public.gmane.org]

HAHAHA! Who iz Bruno Maag?


How do you get the font to show up without it being installed?
(I'm on a Chromebook rite now)


The correct spelling for that iz KoKSUKR.


Thanks!



-----Original Message-----
From: vernon adams <vern-nztp2eEOrCR84o+***@public.gmane.org>
To: Open Font Library <openfontlibrary-***@public.gmane.org>
Sent: Tue, Nov 5, 2013 12:39 pm
Subject: Re: [OpenFontLibrary] Setting up self hosting


+1 on JRUG_PUNK too










On 1 Nov 2013, at 18:04, vernon adams <vern-nztp2eEOrCR84o+***@public.gmane.org> wrote:


i like “oRMR_MK3” a LOT :)


On 1 Nov 2013, at 17:59, Raphaël Bastide <raphael.bastide-***@public.gmane.org> wrote:


Ok nooalf-***@public.gmane.org I just discovered your website and it’s amazing.
What are the licences of your fonts ?
--
Raphaël Bastide
raphaelbastide.com


On Fri, Nov 1, 2013 at 11:40 PM, Dave Crossland <dave-***@public.gmane.org> wrote:
On 1 November 2013 18:24, <nooalf-***@public.gmane.org> wrote:

Turnz out pretty good doing it this way


Sick

[vernon adams]

Post by n***@public.gmane.org
HAHAHA! Who iz Bruno Maag?

He runs a well known type design agency. He’s a loud critic of Free fonts. But don’t get the wrong idea, i like him and admire the work he & his agency does. Just thought it would make a good specimen for JRUG_PUNK.

So nooalf, when are we going to see your fonts being used big time? They should be on billboards imo.

Post by n***@public.gmane.org
How do you get the font to show up without it being installed?
(I'm on a Chromebook rite now)

If you want to view the character set of a font using a Chromebook, you can add the .otf or .ttf file to your google drive @ https://drive.google.com/#my-drive
then you can double click the font file in your drive, and Google docs will preview the font characters for you.

Post by n***@public.gmane.org
The correct spelling for that iz KoKSUKR.

can’t believe i missed that

[Alexandre Prokoudine]

Post by vernon adams

Post by n***@public.gmane.org
HAHAHA! Who iz Bruno Maag?

He runs a well known type design agency. He’s a loud critic of Free fonts.

Just to feed my curiosity... How does one design free fonts and then
criticize free fonts? Any URLs to share?

Alexandre

[Vernon Adams]

The criticism is usually based on around 2 things;
‘quality' and ‘money’.
The argument allways goes along the lines of; ‘all these free fonts are lowering type design standards’, and, ‘all these free fonts are reducing the traditional economic value of fonts’. I’m sure there’s some videos or 2 from Atypi etc.
Ironically, i agree with him, and can see his point of view (if i use my imagination). His conclusion is to strongly advise the public not to use all these ‘Free fonts’ (apart frorm the one’s he has designed, of course). I disagree on his conclusion. Mainly because i think ‘free fonts’ are a sign of very real and non-reversible technological and social changes that the web has brought. Also, i think there are positive sides to the loosening and broadening (i would not say ‘lowering’) of type design 'standards’.

-vernon

Post by Alexandre Prokoudine

Post by vernon adams
He runs a well known type design agency. He’s a loud critic of Free fonts.

Just to feed my curiosity... How does one design free fonts and then
criticize free fonts? Any URLs to share?

[n***@public.gmane.org]

On billboards? That woud be kool!


Thanks for the little Chromebook tutorial. I'v been too bizzy to learn how to use it. I'm slowly digging myself out of the Windows mindset.

Post by n***@public.gmane.org
HAHAHA! Who iz Bruno Maag?

He runs a well known type design agency. He’s a loud critic of Free fonts. But
don’t get the wrong idea, i like him and admire the work he & his agency does.
Just thought it would make a good specimen for JRUG_PUNK.

So nooalf, when are we going to see your fonts being used big time? They should
be on billboards imo.

Post by n***@public.gmane.org
How do you get the font to show up without it being installed?
(I'm on a Chromebook rite now)

If you want to view the character set of a font using a Chromebook, you can add
the .otf or .ttf file to your google drive @ https://drive.google.com/#my-drive
then you can double click the font file in your drive, and Google docs will
preview the font characters for you.

Post by n***@public.gmane.org
The correct spelling for that iz KoKSUKR.

can’t believe i missed that






-----Original Message-----
From: vernon adams <vern-nztp2eEOrCR84o+***@public.gmane.org>
To: Open Font Library <openfontlibrary-***@public.gmane.org>
Sent: Tue, Nov 5, 2013 4:58 pm
Subject: Re: [OpenFontLibrary] Setting up self hosting

Post by n***@public.gmane.org
HAHAHA! Who iz Bruno Maag?

He runs a well known type design agency. He’s a loud critic of Free fonts. But
don’t get the wrong idea, i like him and admire the work he & his agency does.
Just thought it would make a good specimen for JRUG_PUNK.

So nooalf, when are we going to see your fonts being used big time? They should
be on billboards imo.

Post by n***@public.gmane.org
How do you get the font to show up without it being installed?
(I'm on a Chromebook rite now)

If you want to view the character set of a font using a Chromebook, you can add
the .otf or .ttf file to your google drive @ https://drive.google.com/#my-drive
then you can double click the font file in your drive, and Google docs will
preview the font characters for you.

Post by n***@public.gmane.org
The correct spelling for that iz KoKSUKR.

can’t believe i missed that

[Dave Crossland]

You get de font to show in a email by making a screenshot and attaching it,
innit

Post by n***@public.gmane.org
HAHAHA! Who iz Bruno Maag?
How do you get the font to show up without it being installed?
(I'm on a Chromebook rite now)
The correct spelling for that iz KoKSUKR.
Thanks!
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tue, Nov 5, 2013 12:39 pm
Subject: Re: [OpenFontLibrary] Setting up self hosting
+1 on JRUG_PUNK too
i like “oRMR_MK3” a LOT :)
What are the licences of your fonts ?
--
Raphaël Bastide
raphaelbastide.com
Turnz out pretty good doing it this way
Sick

[n***@public.gmane.org]

Added a license statement to the webpage. http://www.nooalf.com/UBoWT_XEZ_FoNS.html



-----Original Message-----
From: vernon adams <vern-nztp2eEOrCR84o+***@public.gmane.org>
To: Open Font Library <openfontlibrary-***@public.gmane.org>
Sent: Tue, Nov 5, 2013 12:39 pm
Subject: Re: [OpenFontLibrary] Setting up self hosting


+1 on JRUG_PUNK too










On 1 Nov 2013, at 18:04, vernon adams <vern-nztp2eEOrCR84o+***@public.gmane.org> wrote:


i like “oRMR_MK3” a LOT :)


On 1 Nov 2013, at 17:59, Raphaël Bastide <raphael.bastide-***@public.gmane.org> wrote:


Ok nooalf-***@public.gmane.org I just discovered your website and it’s amazing.
What are the licences of your fonts ?
--
Raphaël Bastide
raphaelbastide.com


On Fri, Nov 1, 2013 at 11:40 PM, Dave Crossland <dave-***@public.gmane.org> wrote:
On 1 November 2013 18:24, <nooalf-***@public.gmane.org> wrote:

Turnz out pretty good doing it this way


Sick

[n***@public.gmane.org]

Thanks! The fonts are free for use by everybody, including commercial use.



-----Original Message-----
From: vernon adams <vern-nztp2eEOrCR84o+***@public.gmane.org>
To: Open Font Library <openfontlibrary-***@public.gmane.org>
Sent: Sat, Nov 2, 2013 6:59 pm
Subject: Re: [OpenFontLibrary] Setting up self hosting


i like “oRMR_MK3” a LOT :)

What are the licences of your fonts ?
--
Raphaël Bastide
raphaelbastide.com

Post by n***@public.gmane.org
Turnz out pretty good doing it this way

Sick

[Dave Crossland]

Hi Quinn!

obfuscates the link/src file so you can not just click and download the
woff.

This is impossible. You may find http://craphound.com/msftdrm.txt
helpful in explaining why.

Cheers
Dave

[vernon adams]

I’m not sure Quinn is after what you think he is :)

Quinn… do you mean you want to serve fonts like the example i am serving from http://newtypography.net/testing/ ?

A.k.a you want your fonts to be served to remote web pages by simply adding a 'link href’ line to the head of the source html document and then using the ‘font-family’ to set text ? You (or anyone else using your webfont) would not have to write those lines and lines of @font-face rules in css documents?
A.k.a users can’t simply browse the css source and see that ‘myfont.ttf’ is residing at ‘http://myweb.com/fonts/myfont.ttf'
Of course, even if you use a ‘server’, people can still download the fonts, e.g. by using Chrome's ‘Developer Tools -> Elements’ and grabbing the woff files of any fonts embedded in the page.

-v

Post by Dave Crossland

obfuscates the link/src file so you can not just click and download the
woff.

This is impossible.

[Garrick van Buren]

Something to note: From a performance perspective, most lag is caused by setting up the HTTP connection. Essentially, anything other than Apache/Nginx/etc serving a static file (just like js/jpg/png/etc) on the same files system as the webpage itself will degrade delivery performance. Yes, cache headers can eliminate this issue for subsequent loads - assuming your site is someplace people will visit repeatedly within the cache lifetime.

-----------------------
Garrick van Buren
http://garrickvanburen.com
612 325 9110
-----------------------

I’m not sure Quinn is after what you think he is :)
Quinn… do you mean you want to serve fonts like the example i am serving from http://newtypography.net/testing/ ?
A.k.a users can’t simply browse the css source and see that ‘myfont.ttf’ is residing at ‘http://myweb.com/fonts/myfont.ttf'
Of course, even if you use a ‘server’, people can still download the fonts, e.g. by using Chrome's ‘Developer Tools -> Elements’ and grabbing the woff files of any fonts embedded in the page.
-v

Post by Dave Crossland

obfuscates the link/src file so you can not just click and download the
woff.

This is impossible.

[Dave Crossland]

Post by Garrick van Buren
Yes, cache headers can eliminate this issue for subsequent loads - assuming
your site is someplace people will visit repeatedly within the cache
lifetime.

This is why Google Fonts is better than self hosting. Its likely
you've already cached the most popular Google Fonts.

[vernon adams]

I think we could assume that someone self hosting a handfull of fonts isn’t likely to be pushing to billions of font calls, per font, every week.

Though it would be interesting to run an experiment and see what figures are possible :)

Post by Dave Crossland

Post by Garrick van Buren
Yes, cache headers can eliminate this issue for subsequent loads - assuming
your site is someplace people will visit repeatedly within the cache
lifetime.

This is why Google Fonts is better than self hosting. Its likely
you've already cached the most popular Google Fonts.

[Garrick van Buren]

Post by Dave Crossland
This is why Google Fonts is better than self hosting. Its likely
you've already cached the most popular Google Fonts.

Sure, that's the argument for linking to any of Google-hosted resources (jQuery, etc).

Personally, I feel this approach make the web more fragile, masks the approachability of HTML/CSS, and introduces privacy concerns.


-----------------------
Garrick van Buren
http://garrickvanburen.com
612 325 9110
-----------------------

[vernon adams]

I think you are right.
Imo the web would be much more robust and fertile if type was even more ‘democratised’ and ‘autonomous’. The big web companies would be much better served by a few big font servers amid swarms of small font servers. Repeating myself, i know, :) but if webfont servers could be as commonplace and as easy to use as all those zillions of Wordpress installations across the web… it would be awesome.

-v

Post by Garrick van Buren

Post by Dave Crossland
This is why Google Fonts is better than self hosting. Its likely
you've already cached the most popular Google Fonts.

Sure, that's the argument for linking to any of Google-hosted resources (jQuery, etc).
Personally, I feel this approach make the web more fragile, masks the approachability of HTML/CSS, and introduces privacy concerns.

[Garrick van Buren]

Vernon,

I think we're already there. Modern web servers do a great job of serving font files just as they do a great job of serving image files, javascript files, html files, and css files. From my perspective, treating one kind of web-delivered asset differently than others introduces an unnecessary level of complexity across the entire design/development/deployment process. This is why I see libre fonts as the only opportunity for sustained growth and innovation for typography. Everything else restricts in too many unintended ways.

-----------------------
Garrick van Buren
http://garrickvanburen.com
612 325 9110
-----------------------

Post by vernon adams
I think you are right.
Imo the web would be much more robust and fertile if type was even more ‘democratised’ and ‘autonomous’. The big web companies would be much better served by a few big font servers amid swarms of small font servers. Repeating myself, i know, :) but if webfont servers could be as commonplace and as easy to use as all those zillions of Wordpress installations across the web… it would be awesome.
-v

Post by Garrick van Buren

Post by Dave Crossland
This is why Google Fonts is better than self hosting. Its likely
you've already cached the most popular Google Fonts.

Sure, that's the argument for linking to any of Google-hosted resources (jQuery, etc).
Personally, I feel this approach make the web more fragile, masks the approachability of HTML/CSS, and introduces privacy concerns.

[vernon adams]

Sure, i think we are nearly already there. When i say ‘webfont server’ i just mean anything (e.g. just a bit of php) that allows a user in one part of the word to create a webpage that pulls a font from another part of the world, without the need for too much css coding. I don’t see any reason why the activity of ‘serving’ fonts should be centred just with ‘professionals’, every rented web space could have it’s own fontserver running, just like every webspace nowadays has it own sql server etc running.

-v

Post by Garrick van Buren
Vernon,
I think we're already there. Modern web servers do a great job of serving font files just as they do a great job of serving image files, javascript files, html files, and css files. From my perspective, treating one kind of web-delivered asset differently than others introduces an unnecessary level of complexity across the entire design/development/deployment process. This is why I see libre fonts as the only opportunity for sustained growth and innovation for typography. Everything else restricts in too many unintended ways.
-----------------------
Garrick van Buren
http://garrickvanburen.com
612 325 9110
-----------------------

Post by vernon adams
I think you are right.
Imo the web would be much more robust and fertile if type was even more ‘democratised’ and ‘autonomous’. The big web companies would be much better served by a few big font servers amid swarms of small font servers. Repeating myself, i know, :) but if webfont servers could be as commonplace and as easy to use as all those zillions of Wordpress installations across the web… it would be awesome.
-v

Post by Garrick van Buren

Post by Dave Crossland
This is why Google Fonts is better than self hosting. Its likely
you've already cached the most popular Google Fonts.

Sure, that's the argument for linking to any of Google-hosted resources (jQuery, etc).
Personally, I feel this approach make the web more fragile, masks the approachability of HTML/CSS, and introduces privacy concerns.

[Dave Crossland]

Post by Garrick van Buren
treating one kind of web-delivered asset differently than others introduces
an unnecessary level of complexity

Serving fonts isn't as simple as your CSS though; its useful to have a
web font serve that parses the UA string and does eg serves fonts with
hint stripped for systems that don't use TT hint instructions, or CFF
for systems where that renders better.